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ever so slightly obsessed
29 November 2005 @ 01:07 pm
hi, apologies for the mild irrelevance :/

But I'd like to draw your attention (particularly elettaria! you there?) to the poll posted a while ago and the comments it generated. Unfortunately this was while LJ was being spacky and not sending email notifications.

But yep, I'd love more comments/feedback please! and then we can have the poll to end all polls.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/menstrual_cups/392108.html?nc=13

The subject of menorrhagia is actually bothering me a little. About 50% of us seem to fit the technical definition, yet only a maximum of 10% have the symptoms. Is the official medical figure (80 ml or more) wrong? I'd also be curious about why the results were so unlike the figures quoted in the websites I linked to - We seem to bleed a lot more. Did the doctors who decided on that figure get it wrong? Was the poll just crap? Are we perhaps not very representative? if you bled less than 30ml, I guess you really wouldn't need to use a cup... etc etc.

Talk to me :)
 
preternatural on November 29th, 2005 01:41 pm (UTC)
Well, you've got 37 responses on non-hormonal-BC flow, and 19 responses on hormonal-BC flow. That's 56 women, and while the results are interesting, that's a tiny sample size. Additionally, you're asking a small subset of the population: women who live in the developed world and have computer access (i.e. richer than most of the world's population and living a certain lifestyle) AND who use a relatively obscure method of dealing with menstrual flow.

While I don't know exactly how our group would skew the results, at least one guess I'd hazard is that many of us have heavy enough periods that we pay attention to them and consider more effective ways to deal with them. Maybe cup users have more heavy periods than average? Or maybe because many of us live in societies with higher technical advancements, we're exposed more to industrial pollutants and artificial hormones, and therefore bleed more than a woman living in a remote bush village?
ever so slightly obsessedscien on November 29th, 2005 04:58 pm (UTC)
I suspect the cup users have heavier periods theory is probably right. Unfortunately, we're the only ones who can measure.

It's still interesting that so few of us fall in the under 90 ml categories, though - because officially, above that is menorrhagia, yet only 2-6 of us experience the symptoms. I'm thinking that figure is Just Plain Wrong.
(no subject) - preternatural on November 29th, 2005 05:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scien on November 29th, 2005 05:28 pm (UTC) (Expand)
.Jen.ni.fer.imincrediblyhot on November 29th, 2005 03:04 pm (UTC)
i bleed very little.

i estimated that i have bled about 30-40 ml this period.

i left in my cup for 12 hours, and it wasn't even half full.

however, i really like my cup. and, my pads used to leak (until i switched to home made cloth ones)
ever so slightly obsessedscien on November 29th, 2005 04:50 pm (UTC)
eeenteresting. They've only ever leaked for me due to just, well, overflowing. Do you get all those 30-40 mls in a very short time?

Maybe I'm just biased because the reason I personally was drawn to the cup was because it holds more fluid, to help me cope with the bleeding all over the place business. I doubt it'd have that much appeal if pads could cope fine.
.Jen.ni.fer.imincrediblyhot on November 29th, 2005 08:26 pm (UTC)
over about 3-4 days.

i suppose this might not be as accurate, as i'm just estimating.

My lightest day, I bled about 3 ml all day. I bled about I got about 3-4 ml every 6 hours (on my heavy day) and about 5 ml in 12 hours on my 3rd, medium day. Today, my fourth and final day, I just have spotting, so it isn't even worth it to wear a cup. Sometimes, I don't even wear a pad, and there will be like one or two drops on my underwear.
(no subject) - imincrediblyhot on November 29th, 2005 08:29 pm (UTC) (Expand)
The Entire Nation of Amberica - Population: Me!amberica on November 29th, 2005 03:51 pm (UTC)
The poll was started just after my last flow, and I'll be starting again the middle of next week - I can't wait to post my results too! ^_^
Gluppit the prawling strangles, thereelettaria on November 29th, 2005 09:25 pm (UTC)
I wonder if it's because a lot of what ends up in the cup is cervical mucus, not blood? That's one reason why I find it tricky to guess how much I'm bleeding. I'm on my period now, so I should really pay attention.

This is what I'd suggest for the poll, let me know what you think.

___________________________________

1. What form of birth control do you use?

* no contraception/barrier methods alone/FAM
* combined hormonal contraception (the standard Pill, Nuvaring, the patch)
* progestogen-only contraception (the mini-pill, Depo Provera [injection], Mirena [hormonal IUD], the implant)
* copper IUD (no hormones)

2. If you are not using contraception/using barrier methods alone/FAM, how much do you bleed over one period?

* less than 30 ml of blood (less than one full cup)
* 30-60 ml (1-2 full cups)
* 60-90 ml (2-3 full cups)
* 90-120 ml (3-4 full cups)
* 120-150 ml (4-5 full cups)
* 150-180 ml (5-6 full cups)
* 180-210 ml (6-7 full cups)
* 210-240 ml (7-8 full cups)
* 180 ml or more (more than 8 full cups)

3. If you are using combined hormonal contraception (the standard Pill, Nuvaring, the patch), how much do you bleed over one period?

* less than 30 ml of blood (less than one full cup)
* 30-60 ml (1-2 full cups)
* 60-90 ml (2-3 full cups)
* 90-120 ml (3-4 full cups)
* 120-150 ml (4-5 full cups)
* 150-180 ml (5-6 full cups)
* 180-210 ml (6-7 full cups)
* 210-240 ml (7-8 full cups)
* 180 ml or more (more than 8 full cups)

4. If you are using a copper IUD (no hormones), how much do you bleed over one period?

* less than 30 ml of blood (less than one full cup)
* 30-60 ml (1-2 full cups)
* 60-90 ml (2-3 full cups)
* 90-120 ml (3-4 full cups)
* 120-150 ml (4-5 full cups)
* 150-180 ml (5-6 full cups)
* 180-210 ml (6-7 full cups)
* 210-240 ml (7-8 full cups)
* 180 ml or more (more than 8 full cups)

5. If you are using progestogen-only contraception (the mini-pill, Depo Provera [injection], Mirena [hormonal IUD], the implant), how much do you bleed over one period?

* less than 30 ml of blood (less than one full cup)
* 30-60 ml (1-2 full cups)
* 60-90 ml (2-3 full cups)
* 90-120 ml (3-4 full cups)
* 120-150 ml (4-5 full cups)
* 150-180 ml (5-6 full cups)
* 180-210 ml (6-7 full cups)
* 210-240 ml (7-8 full cups)
* 180 ml or more (more than 8 full cups)

6. Do you consider yourself to have menorrhagia [link as before]?

* Yes, diagnosed by a doctor
* I think so
* No

_________________________________________

Things I've changed from the original:

* I've increased the amount of blood loss, since it looks like many of us are bleeding more than we'd originally expected.
* I've moved the question about form of contraception to the top
* I've broken the categories down a little further, so that the hormonal contraception is divided up into the two main types, and copper IUDs are added. Not perfect, but it's a start.

Is it worth putting a line in at the top about how cup capacity does vary slightly, and it's worth getting out the measuring spoons and checking your own cup if you can, so that you have an idea of how much you're actually filling the cup? I mean, I know that there's a certain level where my blood most often comes to, but I'm really not sure what that is in ml.
Gluppit the prawling strangles, thereelettaria on November 29th, 2005 09:34 pm (UTC)
Oh, and I've added FAM (Fertility Awareness Method) to the first category. Is pretty much every form of contraception covered now?
ever so slightly obsessedscien on November 29th, 2005 09:37 pm (UTC)
well, er, the last one obv needs to be changed from '180 ml or more' to '240 ml or more'.

I don't know whether we need a get out option for each? is it mandatory to vote on all questions? I assumed it was when I wrote the original (with the 'this is not my method of bc' option).

Apart from that, all good. If you want to add a note about people measuring then okay - btw I did check my cup against the syringe and it's exactly 30ml to the brim. (Mooncup, smaller size, and to just under the holes was 15ml). The Diva has measuring lines, so that's okay. Dunno about the keeper/other mooncup size.
(no subject) - elettaria on November 29th, 2005 09:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
ever so slightly obsessedscien on November 3rd, 2006 03:25 pm (UTC)
Hey, I want to resurrect this - what do you think?
Goat Friendsfrolicnaked on November 30th, 2005 04:12 am (UTC)
What symptoms are associated with menorrhagia besides heavy menstrual flow? I'm not aware of any. (Well, painful menstruation, but that technically qualifies as dysmenorrhea, doesn't it?)

And I read somewhere... I'll try to find a link... that 80mL is the average amount of blood loss during menstruation. It doesn't include other uterine fluids or tissues.
Gluppit the prawling strangles, thereelettaria on November 30th, 2005 11:17 am (UTC)
I suspected that, but honestly, what are we meant to be doing, filtering our blood?

I believe that menorrhagia, by definition, is heavy menstrual flow. I was wondering what the "other symptoms" might be as well. I imagine that women with menorrhagia will also be more prone to cramping and PMS, but that's not the same as their being symptoms of menorrhagia.
ever so slightly obsessedscien on November 30th, 2005 11:33 am (UTC)
you make a very good point.

I meant stuff like this:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/menorrhagia/DS00394/DSECTION=2&

But you're right that menorrhagia by definition is just heavy bleeding. I just thought it meant abnormally/dangerously/ at the very least inconveniently heavy bleeding, which 90ml doesn't seem to be.
(no subject) - elettaria on November 30th, 2005 01:48 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - elettaria on November 30th, 2005 01:56 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scien on December 1st, 2005 11:11 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - elettaria on December 1st, 2005 02:35 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scien on December 1st, 2005 02:44 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - elettaria on December 1st, 2005 06:25 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frolicnaked on December 11th, 2005 06:14 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frolicnaked on December 1st, 2005 02:26 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frolicnaked on December 1st, 2005 02:37 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - elettaria on December 1st, 2005 03:21 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frolicnaked on December 1st, 2005 03:46 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - elettaria on December 1st, 2005 03:23 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frolicnaked on December 1st, 2005 03:53 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - elettaria on December 1st, 2005 02:31 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frolicnaked on December 6th, 2005 05:16 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scien on December 6th, 2005 05:17 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - frolicnaked on December 7th, 2005 03:29 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - scien on December 1st, 2005 02:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Obsidianpurple_obsidian on May 21st, 2007 05:44 am (UTC)
ok, this is an old thread, but I wanted to add a comment....

I normally use a mix of both my cup and cloth pads, but I measured one whole period with cup only so I could measure my flow.

On my first and second days I believe I overfilled my cup 3 times each day.... because when I put my finger on the rim of the cup to break the seal, I got a lot of spillage, more than would happen if the cup was filled to the rim only.... so I'm sure it went past the rim (and I've had that happen since too).... I imagine by about 5mls (there was a lot of spillage). But even if you take it to be at the rim (which is 33mls in the Lunette), for those 2 days that's around 100mls a day! Then I had another 2 days of bleeding, which was harder to measure, perhaps 1 1/2 cups over 24 hours, then just what I'd call spotting....so I didn't use my cup.

So that puts me at about 230mls - 250mls I believe.

Which I find frightening when I read websites talking about 80mls and over being excessive and can lead to anemia.... I'm glad I found this thread, as I feel more normal now :)

I can't say for sure, but it seemed to be a "normal" period to me, and I've worn my Lunette on heavy days since and fill it 3 times a day for the first 2 days, so it seems to be at least consistently over 200mls. The only difference with wearing the cup full time was a shorter period by about 2 days.

I normally bleed for about 7 days, with about 5-6 weeks inbetween... which has been my cycle since I was a teenager. I've never had a 28 day cycle, always longer. I must admit, I do have irregular periods, which I consider is due to stress, when I am highly stressed I'll often skip a period, and I have before skipped a couple of months in a row. I'm not on birth control at all, and basically never have been (I do remember for a brief time being on them when I was a young teenager. To try and lighten my periods for memory - but they caused worse cramps, so I went off them.)

I had a blood test around the same time I measured my flow (for something unrelated), and my iron levels were fine. I do eat a lot of red meat though. So anemia is not a problem for me.

My mother has also had heavy periods, and has been complaining about it for a while, though no way to measure what it actually is (She refused my offer of the cup to measure).... and she does have problems with anemia (they eat hardly any red meat)... so she'd had to look into medical ways to reduce her periods.

But because mine have been like this for ages, I have no cramps, iron levels seem fine - I don't consider them to be a problem....

So I can't see how, with so many of us being well over 80mls consistantly, how those measurements can be accurate.

One website I read said that they test by taking the pads and soaking them in a solution, then extract the hemoglobin from that (I think that is what they did)... which would presumably not be the same as simply weighing a pad and calculating the loss or measuring it in a cup. But other sites I've read indicate that they do just weigh used pads.
ever so slightly obsessedscien on May 21st, 2007 07:46 am (UTC)
Hey! :) Thanks for commenting, reminded me that I should really post the new updated version of the poll we discussed. When finals are over, anyway. Aww, since this was posted, my periods have changed a lot. I only get a couple of heavy days. Thank heavens for the pill, it's nice to not be completely out of it for a week :)

Well, you're definitely in the higher range. If it's not leading to any problems, though, then I would assume you're fine. From what I managed to work out, the 80ml type statistics could refer to blood rather than fluid. And from a little research, menstrual fluid is roughly 50% blood, so that might be what's going on. Or, really, it might not - those figures don't really fit our statistics either. I don't really know any more, it's been a while. Please, if you feel like wandering around on pubmed and looking things up, do tell me what you come up with.