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alphadel
Hey everyone

I've been watching his community for a while, but this is my first post on livejournal so I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing here, lol.

Anyway I'm a 21 year old virgin and I just tried out my green lunette (small) for the first time. So on the first day of my period (today) I boiled the cup and got ready to pop it in. I was all mentally prepared but...

I squatted down and tried the labia fold, the origami fold and the 7-fold, which are all supposedly good for virgins. None of them worked! I could not get the cup in past the rim, or at all. I was using watser as lube. I had moderate success with the seven fold--the tip went in fine but the bottom was too wide and got stuck... then it popped open and out of my vagina at the same time. Ouch! This happened about 2 times, then I tried the other 2 folds I mentioned. I'm so frustrated; I've done a lot of research about menstrual cups (and virginity) in the past month so I thought I'd be able to handle it. I even had a mirror resting on the toilet to so could see what I was doing.

I made about 7-10 attempts before giving up for the day; I was a little sore.

Either my vaginal opening is too small/tight or my hymen was blocking the cup. I did part the labia and stretch the hymen but it always snapped right back and even seemed to push the cup rim out.
I can fit my middle finger inside up to my second knuckle (slightly over 2 inches) ALSO both of my middle fingers are oddly bent at that knuckle so going in deep is difficult. I think I felt something, but I'm not sure if it was my cervix or just some random tissue. Width-wise I can fit a finger and a half.

And yes, I was angling back toward my butt but it didn't seem to help.

So I guess I should ask how can I safely break my hymen? Do I even need to?
And did anyone else have this problem starting out? And how did you fix it?
Do I need a smaller and/or softer cup?

I'm going to try again tomorrow because (1) I paid $40 for this thing and (2) I am sick of putting my life on hold during my period. I wear cloth pads and organic tampons, but I leak sometimes and pads (even cloth, to an extent) make me feel wet and sticky. I have read posts here from virgins who have successfully gotten cups in so I know it's possible, but how? Even the virgins having trouble seem to be able to get it in, at the very least. :( :(
 
sofia_airodebas on February 28th, 2013 03:10 am (UTC)
Don't give up so soon!!
The learning curve is sometimes very steep...it was for me, it took me about 5 cycles to feel comfortable (I had lots of leaking and removal problems) and I'm now very happy with my cup!
I can't give advice on your specific case, as I wasn't a virgin when I started using a cup. Maybe just say that I find it easier
to insert/remove my cup while sitting on the toilet. Your legs won't get tired if it takes a while...
Good luck ;)
The Devil's Advocateshrapnelshrike on February 28th, 2013 03:54 am (UTC)
How tense are you? I'm very, very new myself, and I haven't had as much trouble as you, but I can tell you that the first time I tried to insert, I was very tense, and I couldn't get it in. It took me a few tires to get it in, and longer to be able to inset it comfortably, because I kept tensing up. It doesn't help with your hymen concern, but it's something to consider.

Regarding your hymen- from what I've heard, it's meant to stretch, not tear. I would try gradually stretching it out with my fingers if I were you. If it is a mater of your hymen, you shouldn't need to go very deep. Your hymen is supposed to stretch with age and physical activity. I'm a virgin, but I also led a fairly active lifestyle, so my hymen is pretty well stretched out of the way. But I can't say that I can back that up with sources. Sorry I can't be more helpful.

ETA: You may already know this, or it just might not be to your taste, but this video does talk about stretching the hymen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qFojO8WkpA

Edited at 2013-02-28 03:59 am (UTC)
Jennifer Monoteasy2begreen on February 28th, 2013 05:23 am (UTC)
I tried the punchdown fold (also with a small Lunette) the first time I tried inserting a cup. It actually went in relatively easy -- when I later tried more complex folds, I found that they had a slightly wider point of insertion. The Lunette doesn't always open perfectly for me with this fold, but getting it in is a good first step. If you almost got it in with the 7 fold, I would give the punchdown a try. Good luck!
alphadelalphadel on March 2nd, 2013 01:38 am (UTC)
Thank you! I just tried again and the punchdown fold worked for me too! I also found that the other folds had too wide of an insertion point that was partially unfolding and easing its way out of the opening. Punchdown was easier to hold on to. :)

I wasn't able to fit my finger around the rim to check if it opened properly or not since the hymen is still sorta in the way. I felt around the bottom (just above the grip ridges) and it felt fairly round, but going by the amount of difficulty I've had so far I doubt I've done it right. :P Do you have any tips for getting the punchdown to pop open completely, for future reference?
Jennifer Monoteasy2begreen on March 2nd, 2013 04:11 am (UTC)
If the bottom feels pretty round (not obviously flattened or dented), you should be fine. I did have one experience in which I thought it was open, and then several minutes, felt a distinct internal pop! There are various ways for making sure the cup opens fully -- you can push a finger against the side of the vaginal wall to get more air into the cup (often you can hear it when the cup opens up), twisting it sometimes works for me, as does tugging it down slightly and kegeling it back up. Until you're sure you've got it down, a pantyliner will provide some peace of mind. :-)
bec_clothcyclebec_clothcycle on February 28th, 2013 11:54 am (UTC)
I am no expert and am sure you have read lots of posts about cup use and virginity... but maybe some water based lubricant (rather than just water) if you want to try a dry run again. (put the lubricant on yourself)

Insertion while not menstruating can be quite different as secretions are not flowing within your vagina... some find it easier to leave the dry run out of the equation.
alphadelalphadel on March 1st, 2013 08:17 pm (UTC)
It might not have been very clear in my post but this wasn't a dry run. I tried on the first day of my period. The water in addition to the blood was more than enough, so I don't think that was the problem. After all this trouble I wish I had done a dry run first, lol.

What brand of lubricant would you recommend, though? I used to use KY for tampons before I realized I didn't really need it and that it had some iffy ingredients.
bec_clothcyclebec_clothcycle on March 2nd, 2013 05:47 am (UTC)
Seems as if you have had success by using a different insertion technique and position :)

KY is the brand I was thinking of, I am not aware of any safety issues. We use it (a sterile formulation) for lubricating breathing tubes, so would think if its OK to put in someones lungs, it should be safe for the vagina.

Its great that you are having success with your cup - am sure it will get much easier for you from now on.

teacupcake89 on February 28th, 2013 11:57 am (UTC)
my (long comment warning!) advice is:

relax, get all relaxed and lubed up (you can use coconut oil if you don’t have any lube)

definitely definitely angle the cup slanting downwards towards your tailbone/end of bottom. (I repeat this to myself if I find the cup it hitting against something, take a deep relaxing breath and insert a bit further and repeat until it is mostly(or fully inside)

I found it easier to insert my cup lying on my back on my bed, knees wide apart, with a towel underneath me to wipe fingers etc on. This, with lots lots lots of lube (on myself not the cup) was how I insert my cup (now I can perch myself on the edge of the bath to insert but prefer lying down if possible)

the main tip however is to relax!!!! (I pretend that I'm about to 'have sex'/insert something, this helps me relax and distracts me from panicking!) focus on relaxing your muscles, keep your jaw slack/open and take deep breaths! sometimes bearing down a little, as in almost trying to pee / have a bowel movement helps keep my vag opening relaxed.

insert the cup slowly, slowly, I hold the top with one hand and the bottom with the other hand so it has less chance to 'pop' open. with the punchdown fold, I insert the smooth side upwards with the crease towards the floor, but you might find the other way better.

sometimes I stop midway, then holding the cup still, relax, and push slowly in the middle of a deep breath. breathing must make my vagina all relaxed! haha.


positions to try with the tips include:

sitting on the edge of the bath
sitting on the toilet (leaning backwards or forwards)
squatting over the toilet or just squatting (high or low)
squatting in the shower/bath or leaning against shower door/wall
one foot on the toilet seat/bath
lying on back on the bed
lying sideways on the bed
I'm sure there are more but these are the ones I have tried!

if it's not working: have a warm relaxing bath, a drink/glass of wine(if you drink alcohol that is!) or an orgasm!! :)

this should be the link to 'The Virgin's Guide to Cups' http://menstrual-cups.livejournal.com/1243131.html#comments

really helpful for all cup users with insertion and removal whether a virgin or not :)

Good luck! you will get it, it just takes practice, patience and relaxation. :)


I suggest reading the comments in these two posts, both from virgins/users struggling to insert their cups: (loads of great tips!)

http://menstrual-cups.livejournal.com/2896696.html#comments
http://menstrual-cups.livejournal.com/2889957.html#comments


alphadelalphadel on March 2nd, 2013 01:22 am (UTC)
Wow, thank you SO much!!! I used your advice (lying on back on the bed, holding cup with two hands, stopping, fake bowel movements, relaxing and easing it in) and it worked! It's in! :D I used the punchdown fold because the tip is tiny and easy to hold that way (I found that when I used labia, seven, origami and half diamond, the opening would widen too much as soon as I inched my hand down the cup to insert.

I may need to trim the stem, cause it's kinda hanging down and even though it's not uncomfortable or painful I can still feel it when I sit normally... but I need to see if I've even inserted correctly (I may be able to get it higher next time? My fingers were getting tired, lol) before I go making permanent changes.

Anyway now that I know I can actually get it inside me I'll probably be more relaxed next time.
Thanks again!

juliiie87juliiie87 on February 28th, 2013 12:18 pm (UTC)
I'm sure there's already a lot of good advice above, but the first thing that crossed my mind is this : squatting is no good for me, therefore I wouldn't advise it to anyone. For removal, maybe, if you need to push the cup down and out, especially in the bathtub to prevent a mess, but definitely NOT for insertion. I find it makes my canal all tight and squished together, idk why. Lying on my back, feet flat on the bed, was the easiest for me at first, sitting on the toilet with your knees spread should work too.


And stay relaxed, bear down even, to ensure you're not clenching your muscles. And don't be afraid to use your hands if you need to push some flesh otu of the way. Not everyone has such a thing as "a hymen" to break, it's actually mostly a myth, and more of a processof learning how to safely and painlessly insert things, for function or pleasure. Don't beat yourself up if you don't succeed at first, it's just a new skill you'll get comfortable with in no time.

Here's a few folds you could try : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt6L-POE-b0

I've had the best success with half diamond, labia and origami to a lesser degree.

Edited at 2013-02-28 12:24 pm (UTC)
alphadelalphadel on March 2nd, 2013 01:27 am (UTC)
Yeah once I moved away from the squatting I found it was less of an uphill battle. :P It still took me a good 20 minutes of trying, failing, rinsing, and trying again but I managed to get it in. I already feel slightly more comfortable with inserting, now it's removal I have to worry about. ^^ Thanks for your tips! :)
Kai: 2Cupskuradi8 on February 28th, 2013 01:52 pm (UTC)
I can tell that you're frustrated. Put your cup away until you're not. In the mean time, next time after you go pee, insert your finger and give it a little squeeze. Now that you know how to contract your PC muscles on command, practice relaxing them. You'll need to do that for insertion and especially removal. Stay relaxed, keep your jaw slack and don't forget to breathe. ;o)

Also, get more comfortable with inserting things. Try something like a clean hairbrush handle. Note the angle that it assumes.

Since you will probably do most of your insertions and removals while sitting on the toilet, get used to inserting things in that position. Drop your panties to your ankles so you can splay your knees comfortably. It's hard to deal with your cup if your knees are "bound together" by clothing.

If you are concerned about your hymen, sit on the floor with your knees up and splayed, part your labia and examine it with a hand mirror.

And most importantly, DON'T RUSH! If you start to get anxious or frustrated, go back to other methods and try again another time. Cups are patient. :o)
alphadelalphadel on March 2nd, 2013 01:43 am (UTC)
Thank you~~ that helped a lot!! Knowing which muscles to manipulate was critical in getting it in; pushing alone just wasn't enough. I think that was one of the main problems the first time cause I wasn't doing anything with my muscles at all.
tinkerandcrabtinkerandcrab on March 1st, 2013 04:17 am (UTC)
I can't resist chiming in to say: nothing's better than Nature's Lubricant! :^) Just sayin'...
alphadelalphadel on March 1st, 2013 08:21 pm (UTC)
I'm afraid I don't understand... Do you mean blood? Cause there was plenty of that, lol.
tinkerandcrab: ugly hattinkerandcrab on March 1st, 2013 10:38 pm (UTC)
When one is sexually aroused one's vagina produces its own lubricant. I'm just saying that your own "stuff" is probably the best thing to make things slipperier in there, as opposed to introducing foreign substances... just my two cents! Some people swear by non-human lubes such as K-Y or whatnot... your mileage may vary.
(indeed, blood can also makes things mighty slippery!)
ps2745 on March 1st, 2013 07:09 am (UTC)
I definitely second the others-don't give up!! :) I had exactly the same problem that you did, not being able to get it in all the way. I experimented with a bunch of different folds thinking that was the problem, but it actually wasn't. I use the 7-fold because I find that works the easiest now (and it's easy to hold onto/keep folded as it's going in). I finally got it to work because I got the small top part of the fold in and then shifted the cup side to side so it sort of slipped in corner by corner instead of trying to force the wide part through all at once. I was originally about the same width-wise as you, but now I think my hymen has stretched enough (just over the last few days of using it this first period) where it's now a snap to get it in. I have the Diva, which I think is larger than your lunette but not sure. It took me a day or two of totally unsuccessful tries before I got it, but it's so worth it now.