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Ideally from mc_sales to save money and help someone else out.

I find the diva a bit painful to insert and quite painful to remove. And I don't need tat capacity. In fact I wore it for 12 hours yesterday after finding it too painful to remove until I had time to look for a lot more tips on how to do it.

I've never had children and haven't been active in a while. And have strong muscles. And have a light to medium flow. What I really think I need is less rim to fold.

I find a lot of discrepancies between all the various charts on sizes on various blogs and forums. and meluna seems to be the only one that provides real specs and other information. They definitely deserves points and my money or that. They say the capacity of the small is larger than any of the charts say. And they say if you have strong muscles, you probably don't want the soft one. And I can't tell how the classic really compares to the diva in softness.
Serpent: neutralserpent_849 on November 11th, 2012 12:44 am (UTC)
the width matters very little when the cup is folded. i'm sure your discomfort is more due to the stiffness of the cup. so if you find something 43 or 44 mm wide (and soft, of course!), go for it:)
Lindaspikeverse on November 11th, 2012 12:49 am (UTC)
Ok. But I've also read on the Melina site that if you have strong muscles soft cups might not open

And I'm not sure the diva fully opened. It's to painful to feel around it. That's why i thought I should go a bit narrower and a bit softer.

Edited at 2012-11-11 12:53 am (UTC)
Serpent: neutralserpent_849 on November 11th, 2012 01:20 am (UTC)
have a look at this post then: http://menstrual-cups.livejournal.com/2618390.html
i don't think the difficulties have anything to do with the strength of your muscles, unless you're clenching them.
a softer cup will be more difficult to open, so practice with what you have:) especially, let it open when it's not fully in! if not popping open is the problem, a soft cup won't solve it.
Lindaspikeverse on November 11th, 2012 02:49 am (UTC)
The problem is the pain. But I don't want to get a new cup only to have a new problem.
Lindaspikeverse on November 11th, 2012 02:50 am (UTC)
And yes, I'm sure the width doesn't matter so much when you fold it but I can't fold it very well when it's inside and full of blood.
Serpent: neutralserpent_849 on November 11th, 2012 03:12 am (UTC)
if a cup isn't unfolded fully i can't even imagine the discomfort of just leaving it there. so stick with it and see if the pain will still be there if you manage to unfold it properly.
have you seen melissa's vid yet? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLPBZz3uJEg it's easier to remove a cup when it's only 2/3 full or so, so don't get a lower capacity cup.

if you don't want to "get a new cup only to have a new problem" (which is not permanent), your best bet is to narrow it down to no more than 2-3 cups (not brands) rather than buy whatever you can get on mc_sales.
Lindaspikeverse on November 11th, 2012 03:14 pm (UTC)
Ok. I appreciate your attempts to help, but You are focusing on the wrong issue. I only said I wasn't positive it opened on the second day because I couldn't check it. It turns out that it did.

Now if we could please focus on what I said was the issue. Pain inserting and removing! Especially removing as you can't fold it all up to a tiny point. I believe what I need is less rim to have to maneuver out the entry. Also the way I can manage to fold it and break the seal is very messy.

And I don't want 'whatever' from mc sales. I want the right ones for me, preferably from mc_sales. As I said.

Edited at 2012-11-11 03:16 pm (UTC)
Serpent: neutralserpent_849 on November 11th, 2012 10:36 pm (UTC)
and that's what i said from the beginning - a softer cup will be easier in this regard:)
i have a small lunette and several softer cups, most of which are wider than the lunette. i'd never call the lunette uncomfortable but the softer cups are more comfy to insert/remove, despite being wider. "less rim" is all about the fold you use. the punchdown might not be the easiest one to unfold but it hides basically all the rim. this will always be a compromise between easy to unfold and comfortable to insert.
juliiie87juliiie87 on November 11th, 2012 02:11 pm (UTC)
... True, that's a skill you need to learn ! be patient with yourself. (Although I'm of the opinion that softer cups are easier to fold for removal).
juliiie87juliiie87 on November 11th, 2012 11:24 am (UTC)
"if a cup isn't unfolded fully i can't even imagine the discomfort of just leaving it there."

This OP, most cups, however firm or "big" they might be (and the small Diva is average width and stiffness) shouldn't hurt so bad that you panic and need to take it out. There are a couple explanations for your issue :

1. You are clenching your muscles, which would make it impossible and/or painful to insert ANYTHING. You need to relax, lube up yourself, go slow, bear down a little even, and find a comfortable position, such as lying on your back or sitting on the toilet, with your knees splayed wide open.

2. You are shoving the folded cup too high and it ends up squished up all folded next to your cervix (OUCH!). That would also prevent it from unfolding, since cups need to sit (o) around your cervix, or at least under it.

Next time you want to give this a go, squat in the bathtub (to avoid bleeding on the carpet), insert one finger and feel for a roundish bump with an indent in the middle : that's you cervix. When you try to insert the cup, remember to let it open BELOW that point, and once it's fully open, then nudge it up in place, or just leave it ride up on its own. The Diva is like the longest cup, so provided you cervix is lower than you think, you could very well be shoving it too high. I did this with tampons for years !

You already have a cup, get through the learning curve with it, learn what your needs are, so if you decide to get a second cup, it should be a perfect match !
Lindaspikeverse on November 11th, 2012 03:22 pm (UTC)
You too are focusing on the wrong issue. I didn't do any panicking and it wasn't uncomfortable once inserted. I wore it for 12 hours! Twice now.

It was somewhat painful to insert and very painful and messy to remove as the only way I can reach to break the seal and fold the cup involves reaching all the way up with my index finger from underneath to the rim and push in to make the fold around my finger. Then I have to get both the cup and my finger out past my entrance which is where the pain occurs.
juliiie87juliiie87 on November 11th, 2012 03:33 pm (UTC)
Oh, ok. This is how I do it, and it's not actually painful for me. perhaps it is because my 2 cups are very soft : large Cuplee and medium Meluna soft. So I'd say that's what you need, something softer. Just be careful not to pick something too much shorter, if you don't like having to reach too far up. And maybe try lube for insertion and removal ? I always wet my cup before I insert, but perhaps you need a little more ? You could also try refolding in a C or punch-down fold once it's within reach, or tipping the cup at an angle and pinch the rim, so it doesn't come out all at once.

Edited for clarity and typos.

Edited at 2012-11-11 03:35 pm (UTC)
m03m on November 11th, 2012 04:58 pm (UTC)
How long have you been using your cup? If you're still climbing that learning curve, the discomfort you are having now may very well melt away over the next few cycles.

Less rim might very well make a difference, too. But if you are a beginner, there is a good chance that things will improve very soon, even with this cup.

If it's too painful to feel around the bottom of your cup, you may be chlenching your vaginal muscles. Are you bearing down?
Lindaspikeverse on November 11th, 2012 05:18 pm (UTC)
2 days. And I don't think I'm bearing down at that point but i do to push the cup down to grasp the tip to remove it. Which I do pretty easily. then i hang on with one hand and use the index finger of the other to reach the rim from underneath, then push in to make the fold. I let my jaw hang open while doing this. The real pain comes as the rim is entering or exiting. (This method is also messy) I think it was too painful to feel around yesterday after insertion because the cup hadn't yet moved up to where it wants to be. And perhaps because I'd torn or abraded something.

I haven't needed it yet today. My periods are short and it seems like the cup stimulated some flow because its not usual for day one to be as heavy as it was. And I don't feel any bloating today So that might be it for this month. Next time, I will try to insert my thumb from above and see if its long enough. I think it will at leat be less messy that way.

Edited at 2012-11-11 05:31 pm (UTC)
m03m on November 11th, 2012 05:38 pm (UTC)
Well, there you go. It takes most users more than two days to master cup use; discomfort or pain during the first cycle of cup use is normal. We will generally learn to do things quicker and gentler at the same time, over the first cycle or three.

Bearing down is another word for pushing the cup down with your vaginal muscles; that same muscle action will also help the vagina open up. So a small amount of bearing down during insertion will probably help prevent discomfort or pain.

Since the rim is hurting you during removal, and you are already refolding it, you can try tilting the cup a bit so one side comes out before the other. Then you don't have to deal with the whole rim at once. A tiny bit of lube might help, too.

As for insertion, what folds have you tried? You can also try a fold with a different side facing up. It tends to make a difference.

I second Julieee87, who said:
You already have a cup, get through the learning curve with it, learn what your needs are, so if you decide to get a second cup, it should be a perfect match !

Good luck.
Serpent: neutralserpent_849 on November 11th, 2012 10:49 pm (UTC)
just 2 days? definitely keep on trying! if you've already seen all those awesome vids by melissa and others, watch them again. you'll be watching with different eyes now that you already have a cup.
for a more comfortable insertion, run the cup under hot water.
even on your second cycle it's normal if your body is like: wtf is that? and you're almost starting over again, but it's easier. and i used a different cup on my second cycle so this will probably increase the likelihood of that.

simply avoid fiddling with it for too long. it's ok to switch to other means of protection :-) too much fiddling results in soreness.

where are the disrepancies btw? they're minimal. don't choose based on hype, choose the actual dimensions (if you even find that you need a different cup). if they say the capacity is larger than the charts say, that's because they measure the capacity to the brim, while the charts focus on the capacity to the holes.

the classic is stiffer than the diva (6 vs 4) so i wouldn't recommend that. it's just probably not ethical to say that if you experienced pain with another brand of menstrual cups, you need the soft. they do say this about tampons.

as for strong muscles, usually this means NOT having any special needs (apart from the length).

sooo... the meluna is a nice company indeed. but your favourite cup company doesn't necessarily produce the best stuff for you. my fave company is lunette but i prefer my melunas :D

also, if your diva isn't too long for you, DEFINITELY don't get a small meluna.
Janinecandyj9 on November 12th, 2012 06:58 am (UTC)
I started with a small Diva as well and also found myself reaching high to fold and remove. I tried it for 2 cycles and then bought a large Fleurcup. I was really nervous because it is larger and the rim flares out a bit. But as others have been trying to tell you, the stiffness makes a huge difference. My Fleurcup is soft enough that I only need to pinch the base to break the seal and then rock the cup back and forth, removing one side and then the other.

It's a little uncomfortable coming out, but the softness makes it way better than the Diva for me. Size/rim are not everything. I use the labia fold going in-- like a modified punch down-- and have zero problems with popping open. Can't sing this cup's praises enough.