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18 April 2012 @ 10:03 am
Hello I'm new to cup use and as I have browsed this forum I notice that my trouple is not unique.  But having said that I have tried all the advise that everyone has given and i'm still not having any luck.  Here are my details:
Dry run #1:  I used the c fold and inserted the diva cup just so the stem was still out and then did a full rotation and then pushed in until the stem wasn't causing a chaf.  I stood up and couldn't feel it so I removed the cup no problem
Dry run #2:  I knew that my period would be starting any time so I decided to wear my cup to my spin class.  I inserted the cup, stood up couldn't feel it so went to class.  When I got home, I went to remove it and could not feel it.  I extended my longest finger in all the way and could barley feel the tip.  The gyno has told me that I'm tiled back and to the side and that my uteris "hides" and to tell my family doctor that..  Anyway what I could tell from moving my finger around it was like I had a wall (pelvic bone) in my vagina and that the cup had fallen into it.  As a side note my cervix is very high as well.  I tried squatting, breathing, bearing down all while having my finger as deep as possible.  Every time I would bear down all I could feel was that it was hitting the wall aka my pelvic bone.  It took me 45 mins to get my finger able to get under the stem enough to lift it up over the bone and it would just keep falling back in because it was up so high.  I finally managed to use my two fingers like chop sticks and little by little of squatting and baring down i finally get it down enough to be able to use my fingers and thumb......  REALLY should it be this hard that I have to spend 45 mins of digging with my whole hand??? I do triathlons and I have a very heavy flow and was really looking forward to not having to cancel race days because of my period.
juliiie87juliiie87 on April 18th, 2012 02:22 pm (UTC)
Yes, some people such as yourself have high cervices, and yes, it does take them a little more time for them to retrieve their cup at first. As a consolation, the Diova happens to be the longest cup in the body (although not in total length).

But the real good news is : EVERYONE gets better at this over time.
You will also find positions and techniques that make it easier for you. For some people it's squatting in the shower / bathtub, for others it's definitely sitting on the toilet. Also doing whatever you need to do there first helps bring the cup down.

Bearing down is the key for high cervices, and it's a skill like any other which takes some time to master. Seems like you've almost got it though, apart from the stem moving back behind your pubic bone. Some people need to use both hands, while some people only need their longest finger, slid up all the way to the rim, and pushed inwards in a "hot dog in a bun" fashion. Remember the stem is only a clue that the cup is there, something to hold on to while you're bearing down, but eventually you need to reach the bottom of the cup to pull it out.

Hang in there, you'll get it soon !
skysosskysos on April 18th, 2012 08:40 pm (UTC)
I feel your pain; that's about what my first removal was like. But the next one after that was shorter, then I had several that were like 7-10 minutes, and finally got it down to what it is now (20 seconds or so). Don't give up; you will find little tricks and things as you go along that work for you and it WILL get easier!

Just to make sure, when you bear down, you "hold" your position when you take a breath right? It was a light bulb moment for me when I figured that out. I had been going push-relax-push-relax which was just making my cup "yo-yo"; not very helpful.
skadi1 on April 19th, 2012 01:56 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the info. I really wanted this to work. Since there seems to be a learning curve that I wasn't antisapating that I will only be able to use the cup on heavy days when I'm near home. There is no way I could do what i did in 45 mins in a public washroom :)
Also the problem I have with bearing down is that it just hits my bone and my fingers are long enough to catch the base to flip it up over the bone. Is there something else I'm missing?
Thank again
torsornintorsornin on April 19th, 2012 07:43 pm (UTC)
Personally I find when I have my period my cervix is lower and everything is a bit more relaxed or something - and my cup is easier to take out and put in :) I also only have to empty my cup 2-4 times a day unless it is a particularly heavy period! It does get better!!!
musicmylovemusicmylove on April 20th, 2012 01:48 am (UTC)
I use the Diva and I seem to have a high cervix as well (never been told that though, the cup just rides high in me). My first cycle with it I tied floss to the stem (where the stem meets the bottom) and just pulled it out like a tampon. The seal wasn't that bad so I could just pull it easily. But maybe when you pull it down and are able to reach the bottom then just break the seal then. I looked here for some alternate techniques (as I didn't think using the same floss for almost a week is very sanitary) and now in my third cycle I just have to bear down (kind of "birth" the cup; use those muscles anyway), stick my longest finger in me, and when I have a good position of my finger on the bottom (not stem) I just push in to break the seal and then pull it down and finally pull it out with the aid of my thumb. Some days it's really high and takes more time (maybe 10 min or so) to be able to reach it, but not 45 minutes. But try a couple dry runs, look up some removal techniques and see what you can do.
skadi1 on April 20th, 2012 01:40 pm (UTC)
I don't think I'm going to be able to do this. I'm back to tampons today. I tried to insert this morning very low but as soon as it goes past my opening it gets sucked in like a vacum LOL. So I still give it a few turns to make sure its open as last time it felt like it was flat like a pancake. Once I gave it a few turns I ran my finger on the base and it was still flat. I tried pushing on the walls to let air in and sqeezing the bottom, nothing would work so I decide i'm going to pull it out and reinsert....Well it took me well over half an hour again to get it out... This is silly. My shape is that i'm tiled back and to the side and its like the cup is hiding behind a corner. I had tied a string around it like other suggested and the string just pulled off.. I'm wondering if i'm even really the right shape for this. do I need a smaller cup so it will open up properly, so I need a longer stem so I have something to get ahold of when its hiding??? This is just tiring and NO way would I be able to do this in a public washroom.... On heavy days I have to change my tampon every 20-30 mins (yes i'm anemic) and even if I could leave the diva in 2 hours i still can't spend 45 mins in a public restroom while i'm at work...

Edited at 2012-04-20 01:42 pm (UTC)
juliiie87juliiie87 on April 20th, 2012 02:16 pm (UTC)
It's true, you CAN'T make the cup sit low if you have a high cervix, that's why the instructions are unrealistic. Also the spinning technique the Diva company advises is just one of many, very few people actually do this. The main thing you need for your cup to pop open is to relax, maybe even push your vagina open with your muscles and/ or finger, make room for air to reach the top of the cup and swoosh in like in a balloon. Find a fold that you can sort of unfold manually by poking around (triangle fold, personnally I like the labia, origami and diamond fold especially http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt6L-POE-b0)

Also don't let the public bathroom thing bring you down. Maybe wear it on your days off and on your lighter days until you get the hang of it ? And use a pad as back-up to buy you some more time. Most people with a light to regular flow don't deal with removal more than twice a day. If you can bring the changing time down to about 10 min or so, over time with practice, there's no way using a cup could be more time-consuming than changing a tampon every 30 min.

If you're thinking about trying another brand, definitely don't go with anything smaller, given your heavy flow. Width is not a problem, it's only contracting your muscles and air not reaching the top of the cup that prevents it from opening properly. There are several brands that are slightly longer in total (with longer stems). See the comparison pictures : http://menstrualcups.friendhood.net/f52-moderator-s-photo-library
skadi1 on April 20th, 2012 05:46 pm (UTC)
from the pics you showed me it looks like the large yukki is the same size as the diva but has a longer stem. Do you think that would help me remove it since when its fully in I can barley touch the stem with the tip of my longest finger?
I looked at the removal tips and someone mentioned to hold the tip with one hand and wiggle the base with the other... i'm pretty flexible but how in the world do you get two hands in there, I can barley get one finger and its extended as far as possible.
juliiie87juliiie87 on April 20th, 2012 08:40 pm (UTC)
It may help, also the large Yuuki is known for its high capacity and newly improved firmness : which basically means it should pop open easily. Also great grip rings from what I can see (not the case with the Keeper moon cup). I was also thinking about the XL Meluna : http://www.femininewear.co.uk/meluna-classic-menstrual-cup-20-p.asp that thing's supposed to be huge, and they give you several stem options, ring or stem sound good for you. Also, from the newer cups, the Natural mamma is slightly longer (from the pics) and some users have reported the Si-Bell (see the tag) comes out like a charm just by pulling on the stem ! But the usual advice is to try and go through the learning curve with the cup you already have. Also it's fine to go back to tampons for certain situations, or put the cup aside for a while if you need a break.

How much you can fit in a vagina pretty much depends on position (and relaxation) imo : squatting tends to make the canal shorter for some people, but it also makee it super tight. Most people with a high cervix swear by sitting in the toilet. For me, the way that I could fit my fingers in the most easily was lying on my back, but it was mostly good for insertion, I'm not sure how much you can reach this way. Have you tried lifting a foot up, standing or even sitting on the toilet, with one foot on the seat ? I've also heard of bending forward then twisting you shoulders sideways for a better reach. Sorry my advice is mostly technical, I'm more middle of the road anatomically and my cup (large Cuplee) is plenty long for me. :/
skadi1 on April 20th, 2012 06:27 pm (UTC)
I also want to mention that I'm 38 and no children. I have the #2 Diva cup. You had mentioned that the width isn't what is causing the cup not to open, how do you know what size you really are and what is best? I know I just need a large cup for capacity.
Also is it possible that since i'm tilted and off to the side is it possible that my cup is going past my cervix or along side my cervix? How can I tell if I can't feel my cervix.
Thanks again
juliiie87juliiie87 on April 20th, 2012 08:46 pm (UTC)
Some people may disagree, but I believe from what I've read that the softness / stiffness of the cup is what makes the most difference in terms of popping open, or crushing vs. putting pressure on one's bladder (which is what happens when your cup is to firm for you), not width. The reason I've said so is because many users, includind virgins and people in their 20's use large sizes just fine, as long as the stiffness is appropriate for them.

It is possible to squeeze a cup past the cervix on one side indeed. The way to avoid this is to let it open low enough, so that when it rides up fully open, it's unlikely it will crush again and place itself this way. Only manual inspection, asking your gynecologist, or guessing from where the cup seems to sit and towards where it tends to point can tell you more or less precisely where your cervix sits.

EDIT : also, I see you are very athletic : having strong muscles in that area can be a reason for the cup to get crushed by them on occasions. You may need something firmer. Although getting the cup to open at first should still be possible, if your muscles are relaxed during insertion.

Edited at 2012-04-20 08:52 pm (UTC)
skadi1 on April 21st, 2012 07:40 pm (UTC)
Im currently on my heavest day and had some time to do some internal investigation. I think my cervix is off to the side, is seems a bit lower now that my period is full force. I think what might be happening is that the cup is going past the cervix to the side and the cervix is crushing the cup, plus since the cup is past the cervix off to the side that is why its so far in and im having removal problems? Im just wondering how do i stop the cup from going past the cervix?
juliiie87juliiie87 on April 22nd, 2012 01:14 pm (UTC)
Find where your cervix is right before insertion, let the cup open low and angle it towards your cervix when it's open. Then gently nudge it and kegel it in place.
juliiie87juliiie87 on April 22nd, 2012 01:20 pm (UTC)
Also if the cup has gone past the cervix, you should notice it because it would be leaking a lot !

Another tip is to make sure your cervix sits inside the cup by feeling around with your finger. The easiest way for me to fit cup+finger in there is to lie on my back, in the privacy of my bedroom, resting on one elbow, in a "birthing position". it was also my favourite position for insertion when I first started, it made the cup pop open super easy.

Of course it's not practical for public bathrooms, but over time you should be able to tell from feel if it sits correctly. And pretty clearly, if it doesn't, you'll be leaking in no time, so wear a liner as back up while you're still experimenting.
skadi1 on April 22nd, 2012 07:19 pm (UTC)
Thanks for all your advice. One more question how do you get your cervix in the cup if it faces towards your tail bone but my cervix seems like it comes down from the top. Im wearing it today on a light day and is sitting low but its like it stopped because it hit the cervix.
juliiie87juliiie87 on April 25th, 2012 01:53 pm (UTC)
As long as it doesn't hurt, and doesn't leak, it's probably sitting right.

I'm sorry I don't have a more detailed answer, maybe make another post if you are still having issues ? And good luck !